Eric Lindstrom su TR:U

Forum dedicato a discussioni, aiuti, media e altro su TR Underworld / General discussion, help, tips and media on Tomb Raider Underworld
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[Reinvent Yourself]
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Eric Lindstrom su TR:U

Messaggio da [Reinvent Yourself] »

Direi che forse è meglio spostarci in un topic a parte, nell'altro siamo palesemente OT.

Sapete se gli è stato già chiesto qualcosa sulla patch per console?




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Arch
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Messaggio da Arch »

Per console non ricordo, ma per PC sì ed ha risposto che un'eventuale patch non era un argomento che potesse riguardarlo direttamente (un discorso troppo tecnico per lui) perciò non sa se ce n'è una in lavorazione.
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deskj
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Messaggio da deskj »

è arrivato a pagina 50 su 67
se non finsice di rispondere (o meglio, se non finiscono di fargli domande stupide e idiote) non può fare il postone sulle spiegazioni della storia della trilogia :P
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30th
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Messaggio da 30th »

Uccideteli tutti! 6_43

:asd:
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deskj
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Messaggio da deskj »

si oggi ha detto che taglia corto, quindi oggi fa il postone :P

praticamente risponderà alle domande se ne varrà veramente la pena

era ovvio che si sarebbe rotto le palle e che i bimbiminkia lo avrebbero riempito di domande totalmente inutili e ripetute "qual è il tuo tr preferito? verresti da me a lavorare come maggiordomo?"

ma dai -.-

e tutti a fare battute su sto epic/eric, sono veramente stancanti :?
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SirCroft
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Messaggio da SirCroft »

Bah...a che pro tutte queste spiegazioni? Sono veramente necessarie, poi? :mumble:




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antoxx92
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Messaggio da antoxx92 »

Ma questo Eric è stato licenziato dalla eidos?




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deskj
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Messaggio da deskj »

si eric lindstrom era il creative director di trl e tru :P
l'avrai visto un trilione di volte :P

comunque ha cominciato :D
It's storytime, but first, the framework.

I'm not telling any secrets or violating any confidentiality or anyone's privacy. Everything I'm saying is just what you'd see on a "Making of" video on the disc of a game or a movie, had we had time to make one. This is just information that is too detailed for mainstream press to be interested in, but fans do care about. No gossip here, no dirt by a disgrunted employee, because I'm not disgrunted. And I'm only going to do it today (sorry for those of you on GMT). Not only does it take too much time, which I should be spending looking for my next gig, but other websites are taking me out of context and writing sensasionalistic (and incorrect) headlines and summaries of what I'm saying, and I don't want to earn any undeserved reputations. It might even be too late on that score, so after today, you might not hear from me again other than perhaps the ocassional cameo.

I'm sorry for those who missed the two days I was answering non-story questions, but a ton of questions got answered and hopefully what you wanted to know is there somewhere. Any questions about non-story issues that turn up in this thread should not be shouted down necessarily, and if I see a good non-story question that's not something I already talked about, I'll post an answer, but it's unlikely given what I've seen. But I won't be checking any other thread today.

First, thank you very much for all the kind words about the WGA nomination, even from those who didn't like the story or the dialog. And yes, the irony is undeniable, but we all knew (Eidos and Crystal and me) about the nomination last week, before the layoff. Like I said, my departure was about having too many talented captains in the studio, and when the music stopped, I didn't have a chair, if I can mix metaphors. Staffing isn't just about talent, it's about need, and as I have said, the real world is too messy to label simply.

I'll start talking about the story in my next post, coming shortly, but I wanted to say one more thing first. And it's about all this Toby Gard nonsense. Talk about a scapegoat! Over the years, nothing tempted me to post more than to set the record straight about Toby. I don't remember reading a single accusation about Toby that I didn't know to be falsely attributed to him alone. Some of what I hear was someone else's work, and much of what I have heard is as much my fault as his. So really, stop hating him, or start hating me, I don't see any other logical choice. Toby is very smart, well versed in many disciplines, has great instincts, and always a valuable asset to the Tomb Raider effort.

I'm going to start with a basic "Making of" narrative, again, not violating any confidences but just providing info only fans would care about.

Back soon. Feel free to post questions in the meantime...

Oh, one more thing. Don't ask about the future. I won't even acknowledge any such question...I mean it this time! Not only because it violates my confidentiality, but because I DON'T KNOW. Future game teams can do whatever they want, and I don't know what that could be. Will Natla come back infuture games? The Joker keeps coming back even though movies keep killing him, because future directors want him to. The future will be whatever those in the future wants to make it into. So don't ask me!

Back soon,

Eric
When I joined the Legend staff, they had been working on the game design for some time, I think months, and had already established a number of things for the story, like doing a different story not linked to past games, and having Lara quest for Excalibur. The team wanted to return to Lara's roots but with modern gameplay, and Excalibur being a uniquely British artifact made it fitting. The direction was established by the Creative Director, Doug Church, a story consultant, Austin Grossman (whose novel "Soon I Will be Invincible" is hilarious and brilliant and a must-read!), Kyle Mannerberg, Jen Hernandez, and some other people on the team who came in and out of meetings.

We talked about what the story could be, and there was a lot of talk, but it's just the way the business goes so nothing specific to say about it. The question I hear a lot is what the story was before Toby came and changed it, so here's the answer: Toby didn't change the story. The story wasn't developed yet. That's what we we working on when Toby came on board. We knew we wanted Lara to search the world for pieces of Excaliber, but she didn't have a reason. By this time, due to various staffing changes, the story was pretty much up to me as Story Designer, Toby as story consultant, and needed approval by Riley Cooper, the Lead Designer. The search for the fate of Lara's mother came at this time, because we knew that searching for an old artifact just "because" wasn't a good enough reason anymore. I believe the idea for the artifact holding the answer to the fate of Lara's mother was Toby's idea, but I didn't have to take it. We debated it endlessly because we knew that it would have connontations that would seem to go against Lara's independent spirit. But we didn't want to make a friend for Lara and spend a lot of time making a convincing case for why Lara would go to all this trouble for this friend. A relative had built-in meaning. So as long as we had Lara searching for this answer in a determined way, not a whiny way, we felt it would work. But we knew it was risky because people could always oversimplify her quest, as many have. But in our defense, Lara in the past few games has been sometimes somber, sometimes pensive, and sometimes saddened by some local event, but she has never whined or shown weakness.

Another thing to say at this point is about whether we at Crystal think the events of past games, especially AoD which was intended to set up a longer story, did or did not really happen. And the answer will disappoint many. I didn't decide one way or the other. Strange, huh? I don't think so...I think of it as fair. We never said how old Lara is, or what year it was, so maybe Legend happened before other games, maybe it happened after but didn't refer to them...just like how TV episodes will have a story that doesn't reference or acknowledge past episode events but isn't saying they didn't happen. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. I not only didn't want to make a statement about whether AoD or other games did or didn't happen, I actually didn't believe one way or the other! I still don't. Sure, changes to Lara's bio would have a ripple effect, but not necessarily to the point of negating everything.

And about that bio change. Toby and I did it for the sake of the Legend story. In the grand scheme of things the changes were minor. And those who say it changed her personality, I disagree. Just because she had an archeologist father and inherited his fortune doesn't change that Lara is a very headstrong, independent operator. If you never read her bio, you wouldn't think Lara was a rule-follower, authority-respector, etc... But really, I do appreciate that people didn't like the changes. I know that the number of times Batman's backstory changes will be of no consolation, and I can only sympathize.

From what I have read in the past, I think people (or at least a lot of people) understand what Legend was all about, what happened, and how the portal confusion worked. I don't think I need talk about that too much. But this will surprise you; even though we ended on a cliff hanger, we didn't have a precise plan as to what the answers to the open questions were. This was deliberate. It wouldn't be fair to set down exactly what those answers must be, thus constraining the next team to certain plot elements. What if they didn't work? What if they wanted or needed to do something else? I intended it to be possible for the next game to start with a scene where Lara decides to put her quest for her mother's fate on hold, since she didn't have any leads, and go on some other adventure. Toby and I just made sure that even though we didn't have a single one "right" answer to all the questions, that there were plenty of workable possible answers to choose from so that we knew we hadn't made a cliffhanger than could not be resolved. And no, don't ask me what those other possible answers were...I don't even remember most of them...it was just a thought exercise to make sure viable answers were possible.

When I found out that I was going to lead the next Tomb Raider game -- I actually could have led either Anniversary or Underworld, and I chose the latter -- I sat down with Toby to decide first and foremost whether we would pick up the story directly or not. A lot of spending days in cafes in San Francisco followed before framing out the story for Underworld.

Next post I'll talk about framing Underworld, so in the meantime, any questions I didn't cover about Legend, post and I'll take a look.

But before I go type more, Toby was a vitally important part of this process. I didn't have any obligation to consult him in any way...I did so because he was a great resource and collaborator, and I'll do it again next chance I get.

Eric
I think I covered already in the Piggyback guide how the original story concept included Professor Eddington and his niece Jessica as family friends. This was cut later (by me, so there's no confusion about that -- we were given a free hand developing the game) for reasons I alluded to before; it takes a long time to establish characters like that and was starting to pull Lara in directions I and others felt uncomfortable with, given her personality. We didn't necessarily intend on finding Avalon and Amelia's fate in Underworld, but over time decided that given the length of time between games, we really shouldn't stretch it out too long. To those who wanted Lara to go to "real " underworlds, find a "real" Avalon, I'm sorry, but parallel dimensions was a step too far. ;) At least it was to me. Again, the future will be whatever it wants to be, guided by those who are guiding it.

Blowing up Croft Manor was an early idea, for reasons you could guess. Not only an exciting, dramatic, and unexpected story development, and a way of raising the stakes, but also give us the change to make a new mansion later with new layout and secrets. (PLEASE do not read into this! This was a possibility laid forth, not a plan. Perhaps there will never be another mansion in a Tomb Raider game, perhaps there will be lots...only the future will tell.)

Toby and I read lots of books and did lots of research for the myth part of the story, and Norse was decided upon after considering many others. I was actually a bit reluctant about Norse, thinking people would look at my name and say, "Oh, of COURSE he'd make it about the Norse..." and also that depictions of Norse gods in the USA tend to mostly be cartoony. But it offered us the most of what we wanted -- that you now see in the game -- so we committed and got down to details.

This idea that there was a "middle layer", people who possessed Atlantean objects, and knew something about how to use them, inspiring the myths of Thor and Odin, was the foundation. It is fundamental to the way we thought of Tomb Raider that ancient truths spawned myth, and that Lara discovers bits of the underlying truth that myth was based upon, inspired by, or affected by. These people were world travelers, and left many things behind that got paved over by later cultures.

Now that Lara has learned the fate of both her mother and father, what questions are left? Well, depending on how you talk about it, there are plenty of "How did Amanda find Natla?" and "Where is Tihocan?" But really, any story -- game, film, novel, comic -- spawns questions like these. Some have answers, some don't because the author didn't need to think about them and didn't intended on saying. I can't say which have answers and which don't. I can't say what any answers are, because they may still get played out in the future, or be changed by future teams, or dropped. As much as we want a favorite fictional character to have a complete reality, they are like paintings...the painting is the paint on the canvass more than what the artist was thinking, eating for lunch, intending to paint next, etc. Go ahead and ask questions about this stuff if you like, and if I find any exceptions I will answer, but expect silence in response to most of them, not because my hands are too tired to answer, or because I don't like you...just because I cannot answer for one reason or another.

And for those who say that the bio says Lara is only searching for her mother and now has no reason to be a Tomb Raider anymore, I say nonsense. Batman, in the Burton film, was inspired to become the Batman by the death of his parents, but later when he killed the Joker, who was the one who killed his parents, did he stop being the Batman? Of course not. Her mother's fate helped make Lara what she became, and over the years she kept an eye out for anything that would tell her what happened to her mother, but every single question wasn't about that, and resolving it doesn't change who Lara has become as an adult.

So, I gotta say, I'm pretty worn out, and stressed about everything, so I have forgotton many of the story questions I skipped yesterday (and in fact I sometimes didn't read them carefully when I could tell they were about story) and I don't want to go sifting back through them. I know people want to know more than I have said by a long shot, but I would rather proceed in Q&A format. Read this post and my prior post, and given what I have said, and what I have said about what I can and can't say, ask questions and I will do my best to answer them today. But please forgive me if I am less thorough and diligent about addressing each post today...I'm running out of gas...

Eric
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deskj
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Messaggio da deskj »

ho fatto le mie domande... chissà se leggerà e risponderà
Hi Eric! I'm very glad of u being here and spending a lot of time for us "die hard fans", and I can't really thank you enough :P
I read every word from ur first post till that last one :)

just 3 questions concerning the interpretation of Underworld plot (if possible):
  • Bhogavati and Xibalba are supposed to be two of the nine norse underworlds? (like Niflheim and Helheim do, but for Bhogavati and Xibalba we don't know what one exactly are, since these names were given by successive hindu and mayan cultures)
  • Living dead warrios of Valhalla match what in norse mythology are called "Einherjar"?
  • Norses and Atlanteans are connected? In this case, this means Niflheim or Helheim are other fragments of Atlantis (like tr1/trA island)?
thanks a lot for all u've done until now for lara, and best wishes for ur future :)
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peppe
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Messaggio da peppe »

traduzione di tutto? anche una piccola sintesi tanto per capire...grazie :D
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SirCroft
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Messaggio da SirCroft »

antoxx92 ha scritto:Ma questo Eric è stato licenziato dalla eidos?
Eidos e Crystal sono sempre state due cose differenti - e hanno responsabilità differenti nello sviluppo del gioco (e, quindi, anche nel suo successo o insuccesso).
Lindstrom lavorava per la Crystal. :)




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deskj
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Messaggio da deskj »

ma è la eidos che ha licenziato questi dipendenti crystal, da quello che si è detto :°
evidentemente la cd è gerarchicamente sotto :?
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SirCroft
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deskj ha scritto:ma è la eidos che ha licenziato questi dipendenti crystal, da quello che si è detto :°
evidentemente la cd è gerarchicamente sotto :?
Dubito che sia stata una cosa così "diretta". Probabilmente, Eidos ha detto a Crystal di tagliare sui costi a qualche livello e Crystal ha deciso di far fuori Lindstrom. Lo dice lui stesso all'inizio del quote che hai riportato - "lavorare a volte non è tanto una questione di talento, quanto di utilità - e quando la musica è finita, non avevo un posto dove sedermi, se vogliamo metterla come una metafora". Quindi, più che Eidos, a fare i licenziamenti mi sa che è stata Crystal, selezionando una parte di persone sulla quale potevano tagliare i costi.

Comunque, i punti salienti del discorso di Lindstrom sono:
Eric Lindstrom ha scritto:
su Legend:

- Toby Gard non ha cambiato la storia per come era stata inizialmente progettata alla Crystal; in realtà, Lindstrom chiede anche ai fans di non odiare Gard, che non avrebbe alcuna responsabilità;

- L'idea di far sparire Amelia è stata di Toby Gard; Lindstrom non era particolarmente d'accordo perché ciò avrebbe minato allo spirito indipendente di Lara;

- Temporalmente, Legend non ha una collocazione temporale rispetto a AoD o agli episodi precedenti;

- I cambiamenti nella biografia di Lara (i dettagli sull'incidente, per esempio) sono stati apportati esclusivamente per rendere la storia di Legend più credibile;

- La fine di Legend è stata intenzionalmente lasciata "aperta" a molte risposte dal momento che Lindstrom e Gard non sapevano se avrebbero collaborato anche per l'episodio successivo di Tomb Raider e, quindi, volevano lasciare un raggio di movimento più ampio a chi sarebbe potuto venire successivamente;

- Lindstrom era stato richiamato per lavorare o ad Anniversary o ad Underworld (che sappiamo essere stati progetti differenti sviluppati da team differenti) - lui ha scelto Underworld.

su Underworld:

- C'è stata una parte importante tagliata da TRU, relativa al Prof. Abbington e ad una ragazza di nome Jessica (maggiori dettagli sono nella guida della Piggyback - presto un sunto online :wink:); il taglio è stato fatto perché essi portavano Lara su una strada in cui il team di sviluppo non si sentiva "a proprio agio".

- Per quello che riguarda gli "Underworld" intesi come mondi paralleli, sembra che qualcuno si sia lamentato che non fossero abbastanza "paralleli" - Lindstrom ha precisato che è stata una sua deliberata scelta quella di non mandare Lara così oltre.

- L'attentato alla Croft Manor è stata una delle prime idee sviluppate, sia per la sua drammaticità che per lasciare la possibilità di una "reinvenzione" anche della casa di Lara dopo così tanti episodi - sostanzialmente, in mente c'era la possibilità di lasciare aperta la scelta se costruire una nuova Manor con nuovi enigmi e segreti (anche se Lindstrom dice che non sa se poi sarebbe stato fatto o meno);

- Rimangono ancora molte domande su TRU; "Dov'è Tihocan?", "Come ha fatto Amanda a conoscere Natla?", etc. Lindstrom dice che sono dettagli che non si è avuta l'intezione di spiegare; lo giustifica dicendo che "ogni film o ogni libro lasciano domande aperte" ed è una precisa scelta dell'autore quella di rispondere o meno.





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antoxx92
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Messaggio da antoxx92 »

Sapevo chi era ma non capivo se era stato licenziato o meno (dalla crystal, giusto...).
Ma io non capisco... viene licenziato e va a spiegare alcuni dubbi ai fans della serie per cui lavorava? A che pro?




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SirCroft
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Anch'io me lo chiedevo ieri, poi ho letto le sue spiegazioni e ho capito che Lindstrom, tutto sommato, si sta comportando onestamente - sta ponendo il frutto del suo lavoro (e di quello degli altri) in prima posizione rispetto a coloro che glielo hanno commissionato (su cui, per altro, dice assai poco). Alla fine, ciò che ha veramente importanza è il lavoro fatto, in questo momento...almeno secondo me.




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